Further information
Laurence Crider records JR as "Rielly" (In Search..., 1st ed.) CHECK LATER EDITIONS etc.
Notice from this that 868 John Reilly, one of Lord Raglan's staff, did not ride in the Charge.
Born at Camigollen [Carrigallen?], Ireland, c.1824.
Enlisted at Cavan on the 12th of December 1843.
[PB: LC says 06-42.]
Age: 19.
Height: 5' 7".
Trade: Farrier.
Appearance: Fresh complexion. Brown eyes. Brown hair.
Embarked for the Crimea aboard the H.T. "Echunga" on the 15th of May 1854.
Embarked for India from Cork aboard the S.S. "Great Britain" on the 8th of October 1857.
Returned to England on the 14th of April 1860.
Transferred to the Cape Mounted Riflemen on the 30th of September 1860. Regimental No. 868.
From England to Grahamstown, South Africa, accompanied by his wife, Charlotte, on the 2nd of January 1861. There were three children in the family in 1851, John, William, and Mary.
[PB, 9.09.2019: Dan Molloy (see below), a descendant, says he has found 5 children born to John O'Reilly, born in Ireland, married to Charlotte Barlow.]
William, born 1850, Ireland?
John, born 1851, Newbridge, Kildare
James, born 1854, Newbridge, Kildare
Agnes, born about 1859, Newbridge, Kildare
Thomas, born 03 Sep 1862, Grahamstown, Cape Of Good Hope, South Africa
Appointed Farrier (as Sergeant) on the 28th of April 1861.
Discharged from Grahamstown on the 20th of June 1865:
"In consequence of disability for further service. Has Chronic Hepatitis and is worn out. Apparently originated in the service — the result of long service in foreign climates, India, the Crimea, and the Cape."
Some enlargement of the liver. Is receiving attacks of hepatic derangement, indigestion and rheumatic pains.
Unable to do hard work or earn a constant livelihood. Not aggravated by vice or mis-conduct."
Served 21 years 92 days.
In Turkey and the Crimea: 22nd of May 1854 — 23rd of May 1856.
In India: 18th of December 1857 — 13th of April 1860.
Served at Kotah.
Cape of Good Hope: 27th of April 1861 — 3 years 74 days.
Aged 40 years on discharge.
Conduct: "has been very good". Is in possession of three Good Conduct badges. Five times entered in the Regimental Defaulters' book. Never tried by Court-martial.
To live in Uitenhall, Cape of Good Hope, South Africa.
States, "Has no intention of entering the Reserve Forces".
His documents were returned to Chelsea Hospital on the 30th of June 1884.
Entitled to the Crimean medal with clasps for Balaclava, Inkerman and Sebastopol.
Mutiny medal with clasp for Central India.
Documents confirm the award of the Crimean medal, clasps for Balaclava, Inkerman and Sebastopol, the Turkish Medal, and the Mutiny and Long Service medals.
Noted from the Mutiny medal roll: "Another Mutiny medal and clasp issued in 1888" [sic].
Awarded the Long Service & Good Conduct medal (as Farrier-Sergeant in the C.M.R.) on the 10th of July 1865, with a gratuity of £5. This was after he had left the Army.
Further detailed medal information archived.
Notice from this that 868 John Reilly, one of Lord Raglan's staff, did not ride in the Charge.
[PB, 6.9.2019: The EJBA was contacted by Gavin Bassie, who has found an obituary in South Africa online. He is making further enquiries about photographs etc e.g. of Dan Molloy (see below).]
"The man Dan Molloy who was on the roots chat said he had a photograph of Rielly in South Africa as an old man wearing his medals Crimea, Mutiny, LS&GC but just the ribbon of the Turkish Crimea. I contacted via ancestry so hopefully we can get a copy. He dies as O'Rielly in 1893. I saw the medals for sale quite sometime ago, but wrong attributed in Spink. I told them there mistake and they withdrew them and told the vendor, sometime afterwards I found the obit for O'Rielly and whether the O' has thrown everyone ? They unexpectedly appeared again last week in Wallis and Wallis..."
[PB, 6.9.2013: In November 2008, a query was posted by "Molloyboy" on RootsChat (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=340246.msg2192328#msg2192328):
From the Crimea to South Africa (Sunday 09 November 2008)
I have been searching (so far with little success) for a John O'Reilly who took part in 'The Charge of the Light Brigade' and then according to family history moved to South Africa to be with his son, James.
I have already come across his son James's obituary.
Well now I've been furnished James's son's, John's grandson's, obituary. And quite distinguished he was too. He was an OBE holder, no less, and seems to have been quite a big wheel in South African history.
Do posters think that knowing the information held within these articles would help me find out more about his grandfather?
How would you proceed?
Cheers, Dan
PB, 6.9.2013: posted a reply suggesting that the author should contact the EJBA about "John Reilly", the spelling of his name in Army records. (But nobody had enquired by 8.9.2019.)
Three: Crimea 1854, 3 clasps Balaklava, Inkermann, Sebastopol (neatly engraved 868 Pte. J Reilly 8th Hussars); Indian Mutiny 1857-58, 1 clasp Central India (impressed 868 Pte John Reilly 8th Hussars); Army LS & GC, Vic issue, swivelling suspension (engraved 868 Farr. Sergt J Reilly Cape Mounted Rifles), GVF Note: Pte John Reilly enlisted June 1842, a Crimea medal re-issue sold Glendinings 20.3.1919.
[Source: TheSaleroom.com: Lot 427: Three: Crimea 1854, 3 clasps Balaklava, Inkermann, Sebastopol (neatly engraved 868 Pte. J Reilly 8th (accessed 9.9.2019).]
[PB, September 2019: Ancestry.co.uk: LINK (accessed 9.09.2019).]
Hi,
I'm on the trail of Sergeant John Reilly/O'Reilly.
John may have left the 8th Hussars around the time around the time the Indian Mutiny rolls were taken and joined the Cape Mounted Rifles. He may well have been a private at the time earning his Sergeant's stripes in the 'Rifles'.
So around 1859 then.
Dan
________________
PS. John Reilly was also in the Charge of the Light Brigade.
Here's the obituary for John's son, James cut from a Pretoria newspaper. It's dated 3rd Jan 1920.
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h14/wolfjflywheel/photos/J...[broken link]
Cheers Dan Molloy
____________________
These are all the O'Reillys I've found. I recall reading about about the John O'reilly you mention but don't recall where.My g.g.g grandfather was a John O'Reilly probably from around the eastern cape/natal area.He married a woman from Zanzibar apparently,one child I know of Miriam/Mary Ann/Maria or Ellen O'Reilly [My g.g grandmother] etc ...
Kate
______________
Hi Kate,
This can't be my John O'Reilly, as he was born in Ireland and was married to Charlotte Barlow.
I've traced 4 sons and 1 daughter on the IGI so far.
William born 1850, Ireland?
John born 1851, Newbridge, Kildare
James born 1854, Newbridge, Kildare
Agnes born about 1859, Newbridge, Kildare
Thomas born 03 Sep 1862, Grahamstown, Cape Of Good Hope, South Africa
Dan
____________________
Hi Daniel — wondering if you are still even watching this thread!
Who were the parents of your John O'Reilly — was his father Anthony Alexander O'Reilly?
Sean
[PB, September 2019: I include this here because, although rather an old set pof posts, there may be useful info/contacts within. Sadly, the photographs and other images appear to have been deleted.]
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Crimean war help needed (Read 9780 times)
Molloyboy
Crimean war help needed
« on: Friday 07 September 07 13:42 BST (UK) »
Hi there,
I've never delved into military history before, so I would appreciate some advice from experienced Crimean war researchers on where to start.
Here's what I know:
His name is John Reilly/O Reilly
Served with 4th (Royal Irish) Light Dragoons at Balaclava
He was an RSM and survived the charge of the Light Brigade
Service number 1398
He was born in Ireland
Died in South Africa
Cheers Dan Molloy
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neil1821
Re: Crimean war help needed
« Reply #1 on: Friday 07 September 07 19:02 BST (UK) »
Dan,
The 4th Light Dragoons were never known as "Royal Irish". Possibly you're confusing them with the 4th Dragoon Guards who were Royal Irish
Anyway, John Reilly.....
The Crimea medal roll confirms his as 1398 RSM John Reilly, entitled to bars for Alma, Balaklava, Inkerman.
However, strictly speaking he was no longer an RSM or in the 4th LD. He's been commissioned as a Cornet and appointed Riding Master to the 8th Hussars on 3 Sept 1854. His successor as the 4th's RSM, Henry Jennings, had been promoted on 20 Oct, so at Balaklava for example Reilly was present as a strange sort of supernumerary second RSM!
Will see what else I can drag up.
__________
neil1821
Re: Crimean war help needed
« Reply #2 on: Friday 07 September 07 19:53 BST (UK) »
From the London Gazette:
"RSM John Reilly, from 4th Light Dragoons, to be Cornet, without purchase, and Riding Master. 8th Light Dragoons. Dated 3 Sept 1854"
"Cornet John Reilly to be Lieutenant without purchase. 8th Light Dragoons Dated 14 Sept 1855"
Then this from the Indian Mutiny medal roll:
"Lieut John Reilly, 8th LD, killed in action Gwailor 17 June 1858"
Can I ask where the "died in South Africa" info comes from? Could this last be a different John Reilly?
__________
Molloyboy
Re: Crimean war help needed
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 08 September 07 01:21 BST (UK) »
Thanks for getting back to me Neil,
In fact since my first post, I have received a lot more info from the friend for whom I'm doing the research.
Apparently, all reports of John Reilly's death were much exaggerated. According to family folklore, he returned home to Ireland with a sabre wound in his shoulder.
His son (William I think, I dont have the info to hand) also served in the army, in South Africa where he settled. John joined him there, where he died. This is a definite as my friend, who is from SA. has a photo of John as an old man.
John Reilly was also mentioned in despatches at Moror in India I think.
He received his crimea medal at Horse Guards Parade from Queen Victoria.
I'll get more accurate information in the next few days Neil.
Cheers Dan Molloy
PS. Where do you get your info from Neil? What's a cornet?
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neil1821
Posts: 2,894
Re: Crimean war help needed
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 08 September 07 11:37 BST (UK) »
Quote
PS. Where do you get your info from Neil? What's a cornet?
A cornet was the lowest commissioned rank in the cavalry, equivalent to an ensign or later a 2nd Lieut in the infantry.
The first two mentions were from the London Gazette which is searchable online
http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/index.asp?webType=0
The last is from the Indian Mutiny medal roll/casualty roll.
I have found a mention-in-dispatches for the Indian Mutiny, which reads:
"For Action at Kotah-ka-Seroi on the 17th June, under Brigadier Smith, Commanding Brigade, Rajpootana Field Force. Lieut Reilly (killed by sun-stroke) and Lieut.& Adjt Harding, both of the 8th Hussars (special mention). Good conduct on this occasion"
Hmmm, how do we resolve this? There seem to be 2 mutually incompatible sources of information here. Firstly, the family folklore (which I'm not knocking at all) saying he returned home, then presumably left the army, moved to South Africa where he died. Secondly, all the military records so far, which are telling me he died in India in 1858.
It would be useful to check the Army Lists from 1857/58 just to make sure there weren't two Lieut John Reilly's in the same regiment.
Neil
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Molloyboy
Posts: 199
Re: Crimean war help needed
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 11 September 07 11:06 BST (UK) »
Here you go Neil. A picture of John Reilly in South Africa as an old man with all his medals.
Obviously the record of his reported death during the Indian Mutiny needs to be amended.
According to his great grand-daughter, he wanted nothing more to do with the army once he had left. Must've had a bad time. Along with many other soldiers he just sloped off after the war.
He may well have gone straight to South Africa from India.
Hey Neil, thanks for all the trouble you've been to. Much appreciated.
Dan Molloy
PS. His eldest son, William, served in the same regiment as the Prince Imperial in the Zulu Wars, but that's another story.
__________
Molloyboy
Posts: 199
Re: Crimean war help needed
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 11 September 07 14:46 BST (UK) »
Neil,
In the picture of john Reilly, there is one decoration that appears to consist of just a ribbon. Do you know what it is?
Dan Molloy
__________
Molloyboy
Posts: 199
Re: Crimean war help needed
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 11 September 07 15:42 BST (UK) »
This is interesting Neil. It's an excerpt from 'Honour The Light Brigade' by Lummis and Wynn. It was given to me by the great grandaughter amongst other documents:
Dan Molloy
__________
neil1821
Posts: 2,894
Re: Crimean war help needed
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 11 September 07 19:48 BST (UK) »
Great photo Dan!
The medals in the photo are (left to right):
Crimea medal with 3 clasps — Alma, Balaklava, Inkerman
Ribbon for the Turkish Crimea medal
Indian Mutiny medal with 1 clasp — Central India
Army Long Service & Good Conduct medal (LSGC)
Do you have an approximate date of birth for him?
I'm still a bit skeptical here as the story still doesn't seem to quite add up somewhere along the line.
The except from "Honour the Light Brigade" is yet another source that insists he was killed in action in 1858. The sources that agree on this (London Gazette, medal roll) are official sources and most unlikely to be wrong. The medal roll for example is checked and signed by the regiment's commanding officer (who would presumably know if one of his officers had died).
If the other scenario is true and he survived and left the army, he would have had to resign his commission in the regiment. And again, there should be some record of this (and there isn't that I can find).
The other problem is the LSGC medal on the photo (I can't think what else it could reasonably be). Officers were not eligible for this medal so it would have had to be awarded while he was still an NCO, so 1854 at the latest. But to qualify for this medal at that time, he would have had to have already served 21 years! Which would mean he enlisted c.1833. Hence it would be useful to know his DOB and what age he was in 1833. This sounds more reasonable than an 1848 enlistment as shown in the excerpt, 6 years from enlistment to becoming RSM doesn't sound long enough!
Neil
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Author Topic: Crimean war help needed (Read 9783 times)
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neil1821
Posts: 2,894
Re: Crimean war help needed
« Reply #9 on: Tuesday 11 September 07 21:16 BST (UK) »
Quote
Anyway, John Reilly.....
The Crimea medal roll confirms his as 1398 RSM John Reilly, entitled to bars for Alma, Balaklava, Inkerman.
Although I said the above before, I notice that excerpt you posted says "Medals: Crimea (A.B.I.S.)" ie he had 4 bars to his medal, Alma, Balaklava, Inkerman & Sebastopol. So I've revisited the original Crimea roll and although the section showing the Sebastopol entitlement for the 4th Light Dragoons is extremely difficult to read, I can just about make out RSM Reilly on there. So he was indeed entitled to 4 bars.
Now looking at the photo again, your man is wearing a Crimea medal with 3 bars. So perhaps another hint that he's not RSM Reilly. The plot thickens!
I have an alternative theory though
I couldn't help noticing on the rolls for the 8th Hussars that there is also a Pte John Rielly listed. Tracing him through the rolls, he received 3 bars to his Crimea medal (Balaklava, Inkerman, Sebastopol), so was another survivor of the charge. Also received the Indian Mutiny medal with one clasp (Central India). But what really leaps out is that by the time the Indian Mutiny roll was compiled, he'd left the regiment and was serving in the Cape Mounted Rifles (ie in South Africa!)
Any thoughts?
Molloyboy
Posts: 199
Re: Crimean war help needed
« Reply #10 on: Wednesday 12 September 07 12:23 BST (UK) »
Ooh, that's interesting Neil. I'll hit the internet.
__________
Molloyboy
Posts: 199
Re: Crimean war help needed
« Reply #11 on: Thursday 13 September 07 11:17 BST (UK) »
Neil,
I'm coming round to your way of thinking. Perhaps it was a different John Reilly, although my friend insists otherwise. But family hearsay is not always on the money.
Here's James O'Reilly's obituary (One of John Reilly's sons and my friend's grandfather and supposedly, one of 11 children) taken from a South African newspaper:
Interestingly, only the 8th Hussars are mentioned. Perhaps he only became seargent in the Cape Mounted Rifles.
Now if James was born in Newbridge, Kildare, maybe John was too.
What thinks you Neil?
Dan Molloy
PS. That generation seemed to prefer the O'Reilly spelling of their surname.
PPS. The 'born 1842' in faded pencil that appears at the top of the obit. only became noticeable after scanning. Woohoo.
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georginaholme
Posts: 3
Census information
Re: Crimean war help needed
« Reply #12 on: Monday 04 August 08 18:42 BST (UK) »
The John Reilly you are talking about is a relation of mine.
Joined the army in 1842, 16th regiment of lancers, army no 1398.
Was at crimea with the 4th hussars, RSM, rode in 'the charge' and survived (as did his brother, Joseph Reilly in the 13th lancers).
Commissioned in september 1854 in the 8th hussars (his father's regiment) when his father (Joseph Reilly) was promoted to captain.
Actually joined 8th hussars december 1854 (a rather frantic letter to crimea 'his services are much required by the recruits').
Received his medal from the queen at the horseguards presentation, 18 May 1855. Married Margaret Geoghegan at Stillorgan Church, Dublin on 3 September 1856.
Sailed for India 8 October 1857 & died at Gwalior 17 June 1858.
Was in the action at which Heneage received the VC. no children.__________
km1971
Posts: 9,343
Census information
Re: Crimean war help needed
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday 05 August 08 09:08 BST (UK) »
Hi Georgina
Welcome to the Forum. Thank you for bring this interesting thread to the top. Heneage was one of four VCs awarded at Gwalior. They were awarded by ballot according to this — http://www.victoriacross.org.uk/bbpearsj.htm. It confirms the sailing date to the Mutiny — from Cork and on SS Great Britain.
Ken
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georginaholme
Posts: 3
Census information
Re: Crimean war help needed
« Reply #14 on: Wednesday 13 August 08 11:50 BST (UK) »
hi ken, yes it was the ss great britain (confirmed by service records, not yet got ship's manifest). by coincidence, his brother joseph reilly 13th hussars also sailed on the gb.
just for the record the present incarnation of both 4th & 8th hussars (light dragoons) is the queens royal hussars and they have a museum in eastbourne and some records at home hq. that is where i got first information.
Now the man who had done the first research, copies of which i got from qrh, had got the wrong date of birth for john reilly: 4th January 1822. the birth certificate copy i have shows 20th december 1822 & the parents are correctly named. parents were joseph reilly and jane hetherington, married 28th december 1821 at corr church, cavan.
could 4th jan be the other john reilly? unfortunately, the original researcher is now dead and he didn't record his sources.
does anyone have the record / birth certificate for joseph reilly, the second son, thought born may 1828 at newbridge, co kildare? his medals appeared on antiques roadshow 4 years ago or so
__________
Molloyboy
Posts: 199
Re: Crimean war help needed
« Reply #15 on: Wednesday 22 October 08 17:58 BST (UK) »
Hello all,
I bumped into the lady for whom I was doing all this research this morning and my interest was piqued once more.
I never did get to a satisfactory conclusion. I see all my pictures are gone. Well here they are again:
John O'Reilly very much alive and sporting all his medals later in his life in South Africa.
As you asserted Neil, he must be private John O'Reilly.
Mind you, look at this picture of one of his daughters. She looks well to do.
As Toyah would say "It's a mystery".
__________
Molloyboy
Posts: 199
Re: Crimean war help needed
« Reply #16 on: Wednesday 22 October 08 18:15 BST (UK) »
This obituary for his son, James, cut from a Pretoria newspaper in South Africa would appear to support the fact that John was a seargent and was indeed in the C of the L B.
But was he a seargent in the light brigade days though? Any thoughts?
__________
liverpool annie
Posts: 13,434
Re: Crimean war help needed
« Reply #17 on: Thursday 23 October 08 03:23 BST (UK) »
Hi Dan !
Did you ever get in touch with georginaholme who answered this thread in August ?
You may like to get in touch with Lawrence Crider who is the best authority I know with regards to the Charge ! ... ( though I did check his notes and I couldn't see your man !! ) he frequents this board at times ... maybe you could send him a PM !!
Annie
http://web.archive.org/web/20130407030702/http://www.freewebs.com/liverpoolannie
http://web.archive.org/web/20130407191115/http://manchestersoldiers.webs.com
http://web.archive.org/web/20130807102055/http://www.powv.webs.com/
Be who you are and say what you feel — because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind ! Dr. Seuss
Erect no gravestone .... let the Rose every year bloom for his sake ! Rilke Sonnets to Orpheus, I
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Crimean war help needed
Pages: 1 2 [3]
Author Topic: Crimean war help needed (Read 9784 times)
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Molloyboy
Posts: 199
Re: Crimean war help needed
« Reply #18 on: Thursday 23 October 08 11:38 BST (UK) »
Cheers Annie, I'll pm Georgina and Lawrence.
Dan
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Molloyboy
Posts: 199
Re: Crimean war help needed
« Reply #19 on: Friday 24 October 08 13:41 BST (UK) »
So it looks as if my John O'Reilly was probably a private at the time of "The Charge", who earned his seargents stripes later with the Cape Mounted Rifles. Are there any 'Cape Mounted Rifles' archives?
This exerpt from "Honour The Light Brigade" cannot therefore apply to my man:
Mmm, is there any way I can find his service record?
Dan
__________
georginaholme
Posts: 3
Census information
Re: Crimean war help needed
« Reply #20 on: Sunday 26 October 08 17:05 GMT (UK) »
dear dan, that lummis & wynn entry is of John Reilly, my great-great uncle. he was rsm 4th light dragoons (hussars) at 'the charge'. i got first details of him from regimental hq (4th & 8th hussars now queens royal hussars).
it is comparatively easy to get information about services people. i started with a local army museum, they will know their way round army regiments etc (which i found confusing at first), so you can contact the current incarnation of the regiment. also try the 'crimean war society' website, bet there's some one there who can help. because i live way out of london, i used a professional researcher to search national archive at kew and the national army museum (chelsea) has records pre-WW1.
i note your man is O'Reilly, although when looking for Reilly, i did find about 10 variations of spelling!
good luck, georgina
__________
Molloyboy
Posts: 199
Re: Crimean war help needed
« Reply #21 on: Sunday 26 October 08 17:22 GMT (UK) »
Thanks Georgina,
I'm doing this research for a friend but in the course of doing my own family tree I've often fell foul of misspelling.
I found Matthew and Rose Ann Packer under Mathew and Roscoe Pacher.
Cheers Dan
__________
gfbassie
Posts: 1
Census information
Re: Crimean war help needed
« Reply #22 on: Tuesday 03 September 19 23:29 BST (UK) »
Hello, I wondered where the picture had gone of Reily/o'Reily ? I am sure I came across a reference to this man somewhere. Do you know where the photograph was taken or came from ?
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